1Above all we might examine the question what on earth the Ideas contribute to sensible things, whether eternal or subject to generation and decay; for they are not the cause of any motion or change in them. Moreover they are no help towards the knowledge of other things (for they are not the substance of particulars, otherwise they would be in particulars) or to their existence (since they are not present in the things which participate in them. If they were, they might perhaps seem to be causes, in the sense in which the admixture of white causes a thing to be white. But this theory, which was stated first by Anaxagoras and later by Eudoxus in his discussion of difficulties, and by others also, is very readily refuted; for it is easy to adduce plenty of impossibilities against such a view). Again, other things are not in any accepted sense derived from the Forms. To say that the Forms are patterns, and that other things participate in them, is to use empty phrases and poetical metaphors; for what is it that fashions things on the model of the Ideas? Besides, anything may both be and come to be without being imitated from something else; thus a man may become like Socrates whether Socrates exists or not, and even if Socrates were eternal, clearly the case would be the same. Also there will be several “patterns” (and therefore Forms) of the same thing; e.g., “animal” and “two-footed” will be patterns of “man,” and so too will the Idea of man. Further, the Forms will be patterns not only of sensible things but of Ideas; e.g. the genus will be the pattern of its species; hence the same thing will be pattern and copy. Further, it would seem impossible for the substance and that of which it is the substance to exist in separation; 1080athen how can the Ideas, if they are the substances of things, exist in separation from them? In thePhaedo2 this statement is made: that the Forms are causes both of being and of generation. Yet assuming that the Forms exist, still there is no generation unless there is something to impart motion; and many other things are generated (e.g. house and ring) of which the Idealists say that there are no Forms. Thus it is clearly possible that those things of which they say that there are Ideas may also exist and be generated through the same kind of causes as those of the things which we have just mentioned, and not because of the Forms. Indeed, as regards the Ideas, we can collect against them plenty of evidence similar to that which we have now considered; not only by the foregoing methods, but by means of more abstract and exact reasoning.
Now that we have dealt with the problems concerning the Ideas, we had better re-investigate the problems connected with numbers that follow from the theory that numbers are separate substances and primary causes of existing things. Now if number is a kind of entity, and has nothing else as its substance, but only number itself, as some maintain; then either (a) there must be some one part of number which is primary, and some other part next in succession, and so on, each part being specifically different3— and this applies directly to units, and any given unit is inaddible to any other given unit; or (b) they4 are all directly successive, and any units can be added to any other units, as is held of mathematical number; for in mathematical number no one unit differs in any way from another. Or (c) some units must be addible and others not. E.g., 2 is first after 1, and then 3, and so on with the other numbers; and the units in each number are addible, e.g. the units in the first52 are addible to one another, and those in the first 3 to one another, and so on in the case of the other numbers; but the units in the Ideal 2 are inaddible to those in the Ideal 3; and similarly in the case of the other successive numbers. Hence whereas mathematical number is counted thus: after 1, 2 (which consists of another 1 added to the former) and 3 (which consists of another 1 added to these two) and the other numbers in the same way, Ideal number is counted like this: after 1, a distinct 2 not including the original 1; and a 3 not including the 2, and the rest of the numbers similarly. Or (d) one kind of number must be such as we first described, and another or such as the mathematicians maintain, and that which we have last described must be a third kind. Again, these numbers must exist either in separation from things, 1080bor not in separation, but in sensible things (not, however, in the way which we first considered,6 but in the sense that sensible things are composed of numbers which are present in them7)—either some of them and not others, or all of them.8 These are of necessity the only ways in which the numbers can exist. Now of those who say that unity is the beginning and substance and element of all things, and that number is derived from it and something else, almost everyone has described number in one of these ways (except that no one has maintained that all units are inaddible9); and this is natural enough, because there can be no other way apart from those which we have mentioned. Some hold that both kinds of number exist, that which involves priority and posteriority being identical with the Ideas, and mathematical number being distinct from Ideas and sensible things, and both kinds being separable from sensible things10; others hold that mathematical number alone exists,11 being the primary reality and separate from sensible things. The Pythagoreans also believe in one kind of number—the mathematical; only they maintain that it is not separate, but that sensible substances are composed of it. For they construct the whole universe of numbers, but not of numbers consisting of abstract units; they suppose the units to be extended—but as for how the first extended unit was formed they appear to be at a loss.12 Another thinker holds that primary or Ideal number alone exists; and some13 identify this with mathematical number. The same applies in the case of lines, planes and solids. Some14 distinguish mathematical objects from those which “come after the Ideas”15; and of those who treat the subject in a different manner some16 speak of the mathematical objects and in a mathematical way—viz. those who do not regard the Ideas as numbers, nor indeed hold that the Ideas exist—and others17 speak of the mathematical objects, but not in a mathematical way; for they deny that every spatial magnitude is divisible into extended magnitudes, or that any two given units make 2. But all who hold that Unity is an element and principle of existing things regard numbers as consisting of abstract units, except the Pythagoreans; and they regard number as having spatial magnitude, as has been previously stated.18 It is clear from the foregoing account (1.) in how many ways it is possible to speak of numbers, and that all the ways have been described. They are all impossible, but doubtless some19 are more so than others.
First, then, we must inquire whether the limits are addible or inaddible; 1081aand if inaddible, in which of the two ways which we have distinguished.20 For it is possible either (a) that any one unit is inaddible to any other, or (b) that the units in the Ideal 2 are inaddible to those in the Ideal 3, and thus that the units in each Ideal number are inaddible to those in the other Ideal numbers. Now if all units are addible and do not differ in kind, we get one type of number only, the mathematical, and the Ideas cannot be the numbers thus produced; for how can we regard the Idea of Man or Animal, or any other Form, as a number? There is one Idea of each kind of thing: e.g. one of Humanity and another one of Animality; but the numbers which are similar and do not differ in kind are infinitely many, so that this is no more the Idea of Man than any other 3 is. But if the Ideas are not numbers, they cannot exist at all; for from what principles can the Ideas be derived? Number is derived from Unity and the indeterminate dyad, and the principles and elements are said to be the principles and elements of number, and the Ideas cannot be placed either as prior or as posterior to numbers.21 But if the units are inaddible in the sense that any one unit is inaddible to any other, the number so composed can be neither mathematical number (since mathematical number consists of units which do not differ, and the facts demonstrated of it fit in with this character) nor Ideal number. For on this view 2 will not be the first number generated from Unity and the indeterminate dyad, and then the other numbers in succession, as they22 say 2, 3, because the units in the primary 2 are generated at the same time,23 whether, as the originator of the theory held, from unequals24(coming into being when these were equalized), or otherwise— since if we regard the one unit as prior to the other,25 it will be prior also to the 2 which is composed of them; because whenever one thing is prior and another posterior, their compound will be prior to the latter and posterior to the former.26 Further, since the Ideal 1 is first, and then comes a particular 1 which is first of the other 1’s but second after the Ideal 1, and then a third 1 which is next after the second but third after the first 1, it follows that the units will be prior to the numbers after which they are called; e.g., there will be a third unit in 2 before 3 exists, and a fourth and fifth in 3 before these numbers exist.27 It is true that nobody has represented the units of numbers as inaddible in this way; but according to the principles held by these thinkers even this view is quite reasonable, 1081balthough in actual fact it is untenable. For assuming that there is a first unit or first 1,28 it is reasonable that the units should be prior and posterior; and similarly in the case of 2’s, if there is a first 2. For it is reasonable and indeed necessary that after the first there should be a second; and if a second, a third; and so on with the rest in sequence. But the two statements, that there is after 1 a first and a second unit, and that there is a first 2, are incompatible. These thinkers, however, recognize a first unit and first 1, but not a second and third; and they recognize a first 2, but not a second and third. It is also evident that if all units are inaddible, there cannot be an Ideal 2 and 3, and similarly with the other numbers; for whether the units are indistinguishable or each is different in kind from every other, numbers must be produced by addition; e.g. 2 by adding 1 to another 1, and 3 by adding another 1 to the 2, and 4 similarly.29 This being so, numbers cannot be generated as these thinkers try to generate them, from Unity and the dyad; because 2 becomes a part of 3,30 and 3 of 4, and the same applies to the following numbers. But according to them 4 was generated from the first 2 and the indeterminate dyad, thus consisting of two 2’s apart from the Ideal 2.31 Otherwise 4 will consist of the Ideal 2 and another 2 added to it, and the Ideal 2 will consist of the Ideal 1 and another 1; and if this is so the other element cannot be the indeterminate dyad, because it produces one unit and not a definite 2.32 Again, how can there be other 3’s and 2’s besides the Ideal numbers 3 and 2, and in what way can they be composed of prior and posterior units? All these theories are absurd and fictitious, and there can be no primary 2 and Ideal 3. Yet there must be, if we are to regard Unity and the indeterminate dyad as elements.33 But if the consequences are impossible, the principles cannot be of this nature. If, then, any one unit differs in kind from any other, these and other similar consequences necessarily follow. If, on the other hand, while the units in different numbers are different, those which are in the same number are alone indistinguishable from one another, even so the consequences which follow are no less difficult. 1082aFor example, in the Ideal number 10 there are ten units, and 10 is composed both of these and of two 5’s. Now since the Ideal 10 is not a chance number,34 and is not composed of chance 5’s, any more than of chance units, the units in this number 10 must be different; for if they are not different, the 5’s of which the 10 is composed will not be different; but since these are different, the units must be different too. Now if the units are different, will there or will there not be other 5’s in this 10, and not only the two? If there are not, the thing is absurd35; whereas if there are, what sort of 10 will be composed of them? for there is no other 10 in 10 besides the 10 itself: Again, it must also be true that 4 is not composed of chance 2’s. For according to them the indeterminate dyad, receiving the determinate dyad, made two dyads; for it was capable of duplicating that which it received.36 Again, how is it possible that 2 can be a definite entity existing besides the two units, and 3 besides the three units? Either by participation of the one in the other, as “white man” exists besides “white” and “man,” because it partakes of these concepts; or when the one is a differentia of the other, as “man” exists besides “animal” and “two-footed.” Again, some things are one by contact, others by mixture, and others by position; but none of these alternatives can possibly apply to the units of which 2 and 3 consist. Just as two men do not constitute any one thing distinct from both of them, so it must be with the units. The fact that the units are indivisible will make no difference; because points are indivisible also, but nevertheless a pair of points is not anything distinct from the two single points. Moreover we must not fail to realize this: that on this theory it follows that 2’s are prior and posterior, and the other numbers similarly. Let it be granted that the 2’s in 4 are contemporaneous; yet they are prior to those in 8, and just as the 〈determinate〉 2 produced the 2’s in 4, so37 they produced the 4’s in 8. Hence if the original 2 is an Idea, these 2’s will also be Ideas of a sort. And the same argument applies to the units, because the units in the original 2 produce the four units in 4; and so all the units become Ideas, and an Idea will be composed of Ideas. Hence clearly those things also of which these things are Ideas will be composite; 1082be.g., one might say that animals are composed of animals, if there are Ideas of animals. In general, to regard units as different in any way whatsoever is absurd and fictitious (by “fictitious” I mean “dragged in to support a hypothesis”). For we can see that one unit differs from another neither in quantity nor in quality; and a number must be either equal or unequal—this applies to all numbers, but especially to numbers consisting of abstract units. Thus if a number is neither more nor less, it is equal; and things which are equal and entirely without difference we assume, in the sphere of number, to be identical. Otherwise even the 2’s in the Ideal 10 will be different, although they are equal; for if anyone maintains that they are not different, what reason will he be able to allege? Again, if every unit plus another unit makes 2, a unit from the Ideal 2 plus one from the Ideal 3 will make 2—a 2 composed of different units38; will this be prior or posterior to 3? It rather seems that it must be prior, because one of the units is contemporaneous with 3, and the other with 2.39 We assume that in general 1 and 1, whether the things are equal or unequal, make 2; e.g. good and bad, or man and horse; but the supporters of this theory say that not even two units make 2. If the number of the Ideal 3 is not greater than that of the Ideal 2, it is strange; and if it is greater, then clearly there is a number in it equal to the 2, so that this number is not different from the Ideal 2. But this is impossible, if there is a first and second number.40 Nor will the Ideas be numbers. For on this particular point they are right who claim that the units must be different if there are to be Ideas, as has been already stated.41 For the form is unique; but if the units are undifferentiated, the 2’s and 3’s will be undifferentiated. Hence they have to say that when we count like this, l, 2, we do not add to the already existing number; for if we do, (a) number will not be generated from the indeterminate dyad, and (b) a number cannot be an Idea; because one Idea will pre-exist in another, and all the Forms will be parts of one Form.42 Thus in relation to their hypothesis they are right, but absolutely they are wrong, for their view is very destructive, inasmuch as they will say that this point presents a difficulty: whether, when we count and say “1, 2, 3,” we count by addition or by enumerating distinct portions.43 But we do both; and therefore it is ridiculous to refer this point to so great a difference in essence.
then how can the Ideas, if they are the substances of things, exist in separation from them? In thePhaedo this statement is made: that the Forms are causes both of being and of generation. Yet assuming that the Forms exist, still there is no generation unless there is something to impart motion; and many other things are generated (e.g. house and ring) of which the Idealists say that there are no Forms. Thus it is clearly possible that those things of which they say that there are Ideas may also exist and be generated through the same kind of causes as those of the things which we have just mentioned, and not because of the Forms. Indeed, as regards the Ideas, we can collect against them plenty of evidence similar to that which we have now considered; not only by the foregoing methods, but by means of more abstract and exact reasoning.
Now that we have dealt with the problems concerning the Ideas, we had better re-investigate the problems connected with numbers that follow from the theory that numbers are separate substances and primary causes of existing things. Now if number is a kind of entity, and has nothing else as its substance, but only number itself, as some maintain; then either (a) there must be some one part of number which is primary, and some other part next in succession, and so on, each part being specifically different— and this applies directly to units, and any given unit is inaddible to any other given unit; or (b) they are all directly successive, and any units can be added to any other units, as is held of mathematical number; for in mathematical number no one unit differs in any way from another. Or (c) some units must be addible and others not. E.g., 2 is first after 1, and then 3, and so on with the other numbers; and the units in each number are addible, e.g. the units in the first2 are addible to one another, and those in the first 3 to one another, and so on in the case of the other numbers; but the units in the Ideal 2 are inaddible to those in the Ideal 3; and similarly in the case of the other successive numbers. Hence whereas mathematical number is counted thus: after 1, 2 (which consists of another 1 added to the former) and 3 (which consists of another 1 added to these two) and the other numbers in the same way, Ideal number is counted like this: after 1, a distinct 2 not including the original 1; and a 3 not including the 2, and the rest of the numbers similarly. Or (d) one kind of number must be such as we first described, and another or such as the mathematicians maintain, and that which we have last described must be a third kind. Again, these numbers must exist either in separation from things,
ὥστε πῶς ἂν αἱ ἰδέαι οὐσίαι τῶν πραγμάτων οὖσαι χωρὶς εἶεν; ἐν δὲ τῷ Φαίδωνι τοῦτον λέγεται τὸν τρόπον, ὡς καὶ τοῦ εἶναι καὶ τοῦ γίγνεσθαι αἴτια τὰ εἴδη ἐστίν· καίτοι τῶν εἰδῶν ὄντων ὅμως οὐ γίγνεται ἂν μὴ ᾖ τὸ κινῆσον, καὶ πολλὰ γίγνεται ἕτερα, οἷον οἰκία καὶ δακτύλιος, ὧν οὔ φασιν εἶναι εἴδη· ὥστε δῆλον ὅτι ἐνδέχεται κἀκεῖνα, ὧν φασὶν ἰδέας εἶναι, καὶ εἶναι καὶ γίγνεσθαι διὰ τοιαύτας αἰτίας οἵας καὶ τὰ ῥηθέντα νῦν, ἀλλʼ οὐ διὰ τὰ εἴδη. ἀλλὰ περὶ μὲν τῶν ἰδεῶν καὶ τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον καὶ διὰ λογικωτέρων καὶ ἀκριβεστέρων λόγων ἔστι πολλὰ συναγαγεῖν ὅμοια τοῖς τεθεωρημένοις.
ἐπεὶ δὲ διώρισται περὶ τούτων, καλῶς ἔχει πάλιν θεωρῆσαι τὰ περὶ τοὺς ἀριθμοὺς συμβαίνοντα τοῖς λέγουσιν οὐσίας αὐτοὺς εἶναι χωριστὰς καὶ τῶν ὄντων αἰτίας πρώτας. ἀνάγκη δʼ, εἴπερ ἐστὶν ὁ ἀριθμὸς φύσις τις καὶ μὴ ἄλλη τίς ἐστιν αὐτοῦ ἡ οὐσία ἀλλὰ τοῦτʼ αὐτό, ὥσπερ φασί τινες, ἤτοι εἶναι τὸ μὲν πρῶτόν τι αὐτοῦ τὸ δʼ ἐχόμενον, ἕτερον ὂν τῷ εἴδει ἕκαστον,—καὶ τοῦτο ἢ ἐπὶ τῶν μονάδων εὐθὺς ὑπάρχει καὶ ἔστιν ἀσύμβλητος ὁποιαοῦν μονὰς ὁποιᾳοῦν μονάδι, ἢ εὐθὺς ἐφεξῆς πᾶσαι καὶ συμβληταὶ ὁποιαιοῦν ὁποιαισοῦν, οἷον λέγουσιν εἶναι τὸν μαθηματικὸν ἀριθμόν (ἐν γὰρ τῷ μαθηματικῷ οὐδὲν διαφέρει οὐδεμία μονὰς ἑτέρα ἑτέρας)· ἢ τὰς μὲν συμβλητὰς τὰς δὲ μή (οἷον εἰ ἔστι μετὰ τὸ ἓν πρώτη ἡ δυάς, ἔπειτα ἡ τριὰς καὶ οὕτω δὴ ὁ ἄλλος ἀριθμός, εἰσὶ δὲ συμβληταὶ αἱ ἐν ἑκάστῳ ἀριθμῷ μονάδες, οἷον αἱ ἐν τῇ δυάδι τῇ πρώτῃ αὑταῖς, καὶ αἱ ἐν τῇ τριάδι τῇ πρώτῃ αὑταῖς, καὶ οὕτω δὴ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἀριθμῶν· αἱ δʼ ἐν τῇ δυάδι αὐτῇ πρὸς τὰς ἐν τῇ τριάδι αὐτῇ ἀσύμβλητοι, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων τῶν ἐφεξῆς ἀριθμῶν· διὸ καὶ ὁ μὲν μαθηματικὸς ἀριθμεῖται μετὰ τὸ ἓν δύο, πρὸς τῷ ἔμπροσθεν ἑνὶ ἄλλο ἕν, καὶ τὰ τρία πρὸς τοῖς δυσὶ τούτοις ἄλλο ἕν, καὶ ὁ λοιπὸς δὲ ὡσαύτως· οὗτος δὲ μετὰ τὸ ἓν δύο ἕτερα ἄνευ τοῦ ἑνὸς τοῦ πρώτου, καὶ ἡ τριὰς ἄνευ τῆς δυάδος, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ ὁ ἄλλος ἀριθμός)· ἢ τὸν μὲν εἶναι τῶν ἀριθμῶν οἷος ὁ πρῶτος ἐλέχθη, τὸν δʼ οἷον οἱ μαθηματικοὶ λέγουσι, τρίτον δὲ τὸν ῥηθέντα τελευταῖον· ἔτι τούτους ἢ χωριστοὺς εἶναι τοὺς ἀριθμοὺς τῶν πραγμάτων,
or not in separation, but in sensible things (not, however, in the way which we first considered, but in the sense that sensible things are composed of numbers which are present in them)—either some of them and not others, or all of them. These are of necessity the only ways in which the numbers can exist. Now of those who say that unity is the beginning and substance and element of all things, and that number is derived from it and something else, almost everyone has described number in one of these ways (except that no one has maintained that all units are inaddible); and this is natural enough, because there can be no other way apart from those which we have mentioned. Some hold that both kinds of number exist, that which involves priority and posteriority being identical with the Ideas, and mathematical number being distinct from Ideas and sensible things, and both kinds being separable from sensible things; others hold that mathematical number alone exists, being the primary reality and separate from sensible things. The Pythagoreans also believe in one kind of number—the mathematical; only they maintain that it is not separate, but that sensible substances are composed of it. For they construct the whole universe of numbers, but not of numbers consisting of abstract units; they suppose the units to be extended—but as for how the first extended unit was formed they appear to be at a loss. Another thinker holds that primary or Ideal number alone exists; and some identify this with mathematical number. The same applies in the case of lines, planes and solids. Some distinguish mathematical objects from those which “come after the Ideas”; and of those who treat the subject in a different manner some speak of the mathematical objects and in a mathematical way—viz. those who do not regard the Ideas as numbers, nor indeed hold that the Ideas exist—and others speak of the mathematical objects, but not in a mathematical way; for they deny that every spatial magnitude is divisible into extended magnitudes, or that any two given units make 2. But all who hold that Unity is an element and principle of existing things regard numbers as consisting of abstract units, except the Pythagoreans; and they regard number as having spatial magnitude, as has been previously stated. It is clear from the foregoing account (1.) in how many ways it is possible to speak of numbers, and that all the ways have been described. They are all impossible, but doubtless some are more so than others.
First, then, we must inquire whether the limits are addible or inaddible;
ἢ οὐ χωριστοὺς ἀλλʼ ἐν τοῖς αἰσθητοῖς (οὐχ οὕτως δʼ ὡς τὸ πρῶτον ἐπεσκοποῦμεν, ἀλλʼ ὡς ἐκ τῶν ἀριθμῶν ἐνυπαρχόντων ὄντα τὰ αἰσθητά) ἢ τὸν μὲν αὐτῶν εἶναι τὸν δὲ μή, ἢ πάντας εἶναι.—οἱ μὲν οὖν τρόποι καθʼ οὓς ἐνδέχεται αὐτοὺς εἶναι οὗτοί εἰσιν ἐξ ἀνάγκης μόνοι, σχεδὸν δὲ καὶ οἱ λέγοντες τὸ ἓν ἀρχὴν εἶναι καὶ οὐσίαν καὶ στοιχεῖον πάντων, καὶ ἐκ τούτου καὶ ἄλλου τινὸς εἶναι τὸν ἀριθμόν, ἕκαστος τούτων τινὰ τῶν τρόπων εἴρηκε, πλὴν τοῦ πάσας τὰς μονάδας εἶναι ἀσυμβλήτους. καὶ τοῦτο συμβέβηκεν εὐλόγως· οὐ γὰρ ἐνδέχεται ἔτι ἄλλον τρόπον εἶναι παρὰ τοὺς εἰρημένους. οἱ μὲν οὖν ἀμφοτέρους φασὶν εἶναι τοὺς ἀριθμούς, τὸν μὲν ἔχοντα τὸ πρότερον καὶ ὕστερον τὰς ἰδέας, τὸν δὲ μαθηματικὸν παρὰ τὰς ἰδέας καὶ τὰ αἰσθητά, καὶ χωριστοὺς ἀμφοτέρους τῶν αἰσθητῶν· οἱ δὲ τὸν μαθηματικὸν μόνον ἀριθμὸν εἶναι, τὸν πρῶτον τῶν ὄντων, κεχωρισμένον τῶν αἰσθητῶν. καὶ οἱ Πυθαγόρειοι δʼ ἕνα, τὸν μαθηματικόν, πλὴν οὐ κεχωρισμένον ἀλλʼ ἐκ τούτου τὰς αἰσθητὰς οὐσίας συνεστάναι φασίν· τὸν γὰρ ὅλον οὐρανὸν κατασκευάζουσιν ἐξ ἀριθμῶν, πλὴν οὐ μοναδικῶν, ἀλλὰ τὰς μονάδας ὑπολαμβάνουσιν ἔχειν μέγεθος· ὅπως δὲ τὸ πρῶτον ἓν συνέστη ἔχον μέγεθος, ἀπορεῖν ἐοίκασιν. ἄλλος δέ τις τὸν πρῶτον ἀριθμὸν τὸν τῶν εἰδῶν ἕνα εἶναι, ἔνιοι δὲ καὶ τὸν μαθηματικὸν τὸν αὐτὸν τοῦτον εἶναι. ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ περὶ τὰ μήκη καὶ περὶ τὰ ἐπίπεδα καὶ περὶ τὰ στερεά. οἱ μὲν γὰρ ἕτερα τὰ μαθηματικὰ καὶ τὰ μετὰ τὰς ἰδέας· τῶν δὲ ἄλλως λεγόντων οἱ μὲν τὰ μαθηματικὰ καὶ μαθηματικῶς λέγουσιν, ὅσοι μὴ ποιοῦσι τὰς ἰδέας ἀριθμοὺς μηδὲ εἶναί φασιν ἰδέας, οἱ δὲ τὰ μαθηματικά, οὐ μαθηματικῶς δέ· οὐ γὰρ τέμνεσθαι οὔτε μέγεθος πᾶν εἰς μεγέθη, οὔθʼ ὁποιασοῦν μονάδας δυάδα εἶναι. μοναδικοὺς δὲ τοὺς ἀριθμοὺς εἶναι πάντες τιθέασι, πλὴν τῶν Πυθαγορείων, ὅσοι τὸ ἓν στοιχεῖον καὶ ἀρχήν φασιν εἶναι τῶν ὄντων· ἐκεῖνοι δʼ ἔχοντας μέγεθος, καθάπερ εἴηρται πρότερον. ὁσαχῶς μὲν οὖν ἐνδέχεται λεχθῆναι περὶ αὐτῶν, καὶ ὅτι πάντες εἰσὶν εἰρημένοι οἱ τρόποι, φανερὸν ἐκ τούτων· ἔστι δὲ πάντα μὲν ἀδύνατα, μᾶλλον δʼ ἴσως θάτερα τῶν ἑτέρων.
πρῶτον μὲν οὖν σκεπτέον εἰ συμβληταὶ αἱ μονάδες ἢ ἀσύμβλητοι, καὶ εἰ ἀσύμβλητοι, ποτέρως ὧνπερ διείλομεν.
and if inaddible, in which of the two ways which we have distinguished. For it is possible either (a) that any one unit is inaddible to any other, or (b) that the units in the Ideal 2 are inaddible to those in the Ideal 3, and thus that the units in each Ideal number are inaddible to those in the other Ideal numbers. Now if all units are addible and do not differ in kind, we get one type of number only, the mathematical, and the Ideas cannot be the numbers thus produced; for how can we regard the Idea of Man or Animal, or any other Form, as a number? There is one Idea of each kind of thing: e.g. one of Humanity and another one of Animality; but the numbers which are similar and do not differ in kind are infinitely many, so that this is no more the Idea of Man than any other 3 is. But if the Ideas are not numbers, they cannot exist at all; for from what principles can the Ideas be derived? Number is derived from Unity and the indeterminate dyad, and the principles and elements are said to be the principles and elements of number, and the Ideas cannot be placed either as prior or as posterior to numbers. But if the units are inaddible in the sense that any one unit is inaddible to any other, the number so composed can be neither mathematical number (since mathematical number consists of units which do not differ, and the facts demonstrated of it fit in with this character) nor Ideal number. For on this view 2 will not be the first number generated from Unity and the indeterminate dyad, and then the other numbers in succession, as they say 2, 3, because the units in the primary 2 are generated at the same time, whether, as the originator of the theory held, from unequals(coming into being when these were equalized), or otherwise— since if we regard the one unit as prior to the other, it will be prior also to the 2 which is composed of them; because whenever one thing is prior and another posterior, their compound will be prior to the latter and posterior to the former. Further, since the Ideal 1 is first, and then comes a particular 1 which is first of the other 1’s but second after the Ideal 1, and then a third 1 which is next after the second but third after the first 1, it follows that the units will be prior to the numbers after which they are called; e.g., there will be a third unit in 2 before 3 exists, and a fourth and fifth in 3 before these numbers exist. It is true that nobody has represented the units of numbers as inaddible in this way; but according to the principles held by these thinkers even this view is quite reasonable,
ἔστι μὲν γὰρ ὁποιανοῦν εἶναι ὁποιᾳοῦν μονάδι ἀσύμβλητον, ἔστι δὲ τὰς ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ δυάδι πρὸς τὰς ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ τριάδι, καὶ οὕτως δὴ ἀσυμβλήτους εἶναι τὰς ἐν ἑκάστῳ τῷ πρώτῳ ἀριθμῷ πρὸς ἀλλήλας. εἰ μὲν οὖν πᾶσαι συμβληταὶ καὶ ἀδιάφοροι αἱ μονάδες, ὁ μαθηματικὸς γίγνεται ἀριθμὸς καὶ εἷς μόνος, καὶ τὰς ἰδέας οὐκ ἐνδέχεται εἶναι τοὺς ἀριθμούς (ποῖος γὰρ ἔσται ἀριθμὸς αὐτὸ ἄνθρωπος ἢ ζῷον ἢ ἄλλο ὁτιοῦν τῶν εἰδῶν; ἰδέα μὲν γὰρ μία ἑκάστου, οἷον αὐτοῦ ἀνθρώπου μία καὶ αὐτοῦ ζῴου ἄλλη μία· οἱ δʼ ὅμοιοι καὶ ἀδιάφοροι ἄπειροι, ὥστʼ οὐθὲν μᾶλλον ἥδε ἡ τριὰς αὐτοάνθρωπος ἢ ὁποιαοῦν), εἰ δὲ μὴ εἰσὶν ἀριθμοὶ αἱ ἰδέαι, οὐδʼ ὅλως οἷόν τε αὐτὰς εἶναι (ἐκ τίνων γὰρ ἔσονται ἀρχῶν αἱ ἰδέαι; ὁ γὰρ ἀριθμός ἐστιν ἐκ τοῦ ἑνὸς καὶ τῆς δυάδος τῆς ἀορίστου, καὶ αἱ ἀρχαὶ καὶ τὰ στοιχεῖα λέγονται τοῦ ἀριθμοῦ εἶναι, τάξαι τε οὔτε προτέρας ἐνδέχεται τῶν ἀριθμῶν αὐτὰς οὔθʼ ὑστέρας)· εἰ δʼ ἀσύμβλητοι αἱ μονάδες, καὶ οὕτως ἀσύμβλητοι ὥστε ἡτισοῦν ᾑτινιοῦν, οὔτε τὸν μαθηματικὸν ἐνδέχεται εἶναι τοῦτον τὸν ἀριθμόν (ὁ μὲν γὰρ μαθηματικὸς ἐξ ἀδιαφόρων, καὶ τὰ δεικνύμενα κατʼ αὐτοῦ ὡς ἐπὶ τοιούτου ἁρμόττει) οὔτε τὸν τῶν εἰδῶν. οὐ γὰρ ἔσται ἡ δυὰς πρώτη ἐκ τοῦ ἑνὸς καὶ τῆς ἀορίστου δυάδος, ἔπειτα οἱ ἑξῆς ἀριθμοί, ὡς λέγεται δυάς, τριάς, τετράς—ἅμα γὰρ αἱ ἐν τῇ δυάδι τῇ πρώτῃ μονάδες γεννῶνται, εἴτε ὥσπερ ὁ πρῶτος εἰπὼν ἐξ ἀνίσων (ἰσασθέντων γὰρ ἐγένοντο) εἴτε ἄλλως—, ἐπεὶ εἰ ἔσται ἡ ἑτέρα μονὰς τῆς ἑτέρας προτέρα, καὶ τῆς δυάδος τῆς ἐκ τούτων ἔσται προτέρα· ὅταν γὰρ ᾖ τι τὸ μὲν πρότερον τὸ δὲ ὕστερον, καὶ τὸ ἐκ τούτων τοῦ μὲν ἔσται πρότερον τοῦ δʼ ὕστερον. ἔτι ἐπειδὴ ἔστι πρῶτον μὲν αὐτὸ τὸ ἕν, ἔπειτα τῶν ἄλλων ἔστι τι πρῶτον ἓν δεύτερον δὲ μετʼ ἐκεῖνο, καὶ πάλιν τρίτον τὸ δεύτερον μὲν μετὰ τὸ δεύτερον τρίτον δὲ μετὰ τὸ πρῶτον ἕν,—ὥστε πρότεραι ἂν εἶεν αἱ μονάδες ἢ οἱ ἀριθμοὶ ἐξ ὧν λέγονται, οἷον ἐν τῇ δυάδι τρίτη μονὰς ἔσται πρὶν τὰ τρία εἶναι, καὶ ἐν τῇ τριάδι τετάρτη καὶ πέμπτη πρὶν τοὺς ἀριθμοὺς τούτους. οὐδεὶς μὲν οὖν τὸν τρόπον τοῦτον εἴρηκεν αὐτῶν τὰς μονάδας ἀσυμβλήτους, ἔστι δὲ κατὰ μὲν τὰς ἐκείνων ἀρχὰς εὔλογον καὶ οὕτως, κατὰ μέντοι τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἀδύνατον.
although in actual fact it is untenable. For assuming that there is a first unit or first 1, it is reasonable that the units should be prior and posterior; and similarly in the case of 2’s, if there is a first 2. For it is reasonable and indeed necessary that after the first there should be a second; and if a second, a third; and so on with the rest in sequence. But the two statements, that there is after 1 a first and a second unit, and that there is a first 2, are incompatible. These thinkers, however, recognize a first unit and first 1, but not a second and third; and they recognize a first 2, but not a second and third. It is also evident that if all units are inaddible, there cannot be an Ideal 2 and 3, and similarly with the other numbers; for whether the units are indistinguishable or each is different in kind from every other, numbers must be produced by addition; e.g. 2 by adding 1 to another 1, and 3 by adding another 1 to the 2, and 4 similarly. This being so, numbers cannot be generated as these thinkers try to generate them, from Unity and the dyad; because 2 becomes a part of 3, and 3 of 4, and the same applies to the following numbers. But according to them 4 was generated from the first 2 and the indeterminate dyad, thus consisting of two 2’s apart from the Ideal 2. Otherwise 4 will consist of the Ideal 2 and another 2 added to it, and the Ideal 2 will consist of the Ideal 1 and another 1; and if this is so the other element cannot be the indeterminate dyad, because it produces one unit and not a definite 2. Again, how can there be other 3’s and 2’s besides the Ideal numbers 3 and 2, and in what way can they be composed of prior and posterior units? All these theories are absurd and fictitious, and there can be no primary 2 and Ideal 3. Yet there must be, if we are to regard Unity and the indeterminate dyad as elements. But if the consequences are impossible, the principles cannot be of this nature. If, then, any one unit differs in kind from any other, these and other similar consequences necessarily follow. If, on the other hand, while the units in different numbers are different, those which are in the same number are alone indistinguishable from one another, even so the consequences which follow are no less difficult.
τάς τε γὰρ μονάδας προτέρας καὶ ὑστέρας εἶναι εὔλογον, εἴπερ καὶ πρώτη τις ἔστι μονὰς καὶ ἓν πρῶτον, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ δυάδας, εἴπερ καὶ δυὰς πρώτη ἔστιν· μετὰ γὰρ τὸ πρῶτον εὔλογον καὶ ἀναγκαῖον δεύτερόν τι εἶναι, καὶ εἰ δεύτερον, τρίτον, καὶ οὕτω δὴ τὰ ἄλλα ἐφεξῆς (ἅμα δʼ ἀμφότερα λέγειν, μονάδα τε μετὰ τὸ ἓν πρώτην εἶναι καὶ δευτέραν, καὶ δυάδα πρώτην, ἀδύνατον). οἱ δὲ ποιοῦσι μονάδα μὲν καὶ ἓν πρῶτον, δεύτερον δὲ καὶ τρίτον οὐκέτι, καὶ δυάδα πρώτην, δευτέραν δὲ καὶ τρίτην οὐκέτι. φανερὸν δὲ καὶ ὅτι οὐκ ἐνδέχεται, εἰ ἀσύμβλητοι πᾶσαι αἱ μονάδες, δυάδα εἶναι αὐτὴν καὶ τριάδα καὶ οὕτω τοὺς ἄλλους ἀριθμούς. ἄν τε γὰρ ὦσιν ἀδιάφοροι αἱ μονάδες ἄν τε διαφέρουσαι ἑκάστη ἑκάστης, ἀνάγκη ἀριθμεῖσθαι τὸν ἀριθμὸν κατὰ πρόσθεσιν, οἷον τὴν δυάδα πρὸς τῷ ἑνὶ ἄλλου ἑνὸς προστεθέντος, καὶ τὴν τριάδα ἄλλου ἑνὸς πρὸς τοῖς δυσὶ προστεθέντος, καὶ τὴν τετράδα ὡσαύτως· τούτων δὲ ὄντων ἀδύνατον τὴν γένεσιν εἶναι τῶν ἀριθμῶν ὡς γεννῶσιν ἐκ τῆς δυάδος καὶ τοῦ ἑνός. μόριον γὰρ γίγνεται ἡ δυὰς τῆς τριάδος καὶ αὕτη τῆς τετράδος, τὸν αὐτὸν δὲ τρόπον συμβαίνει καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν ἐχομένων. ἀλλʼ ἐκ τῆς δυάδος τῆς πρώτης καὶ τῆς ἀορίστου δυάδος ἐγίγνετο ἡ τετράς, δύο δυάδες παρʼ αὐτὴν τὴν δυάδα· εἰ δὲ μή, μόριον ἔσται αὐτὴ ἡ δυάς, ἑτέρα δὲ προσέσται μία δυάς. καὶ ἡ δυὰς ἔσται ἐκ τοῦ ἑνὸς αὐτοῦ καὶ ἄλλου ἑνός· εἰ δὲ τοῦτο, οὐχ οἷόν τʼ εἶναι τὸ ἕτερον στοιχεῖον δυάδα ἀόριστον· μονάδα γὰρ μίαν γεννᾷ ἀλλʼ οὐ δυάδα ὡρισμένην. ἔτι παρʼ αὐτὴν τὴν τριάδα καὶ αὐτὴν τὴν δυάδα πῶς ἔσονται ἄλλαι τριάδες καὶ δυάδες; καὶ τίνα τρόπον ἐκ προτέρων μονάδων καὶ ὑστέρων σύγκεινται; πάντα γὰρ ταῦτʼ ἄτοπά ἐστι καὶ πλασματώδη, καὶ ἀδύνατον εἶναι πρώτην δυάδα, εἶτʼ αὐτὴν τριάδα. ἀνάγκη δʼ, ἐπείπερ ἔσται τὸ ἓν καὶ ἡ ἀόριστος δυὰς στοιχεῖα. εἰ δʼ ἀδύνατα τὰ συμβαίνοντα, καὶ τὰς ἀρχὰς εἶναι ταύτας ἀδύνατον.—εἰ μὲν οὖν διάφοροι αἱ μονάδες ὁποιαιοῦν ὁποιαισοῦν, ταῦτα καὶ τοιαῦθʼ ἕτερα συμβαίνει ἐξ ἀνάγκης· εἰ δʼ αἱ μὲν ἐν ἄλλῳ διάφοροι αἱ δʼ ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ ἀριθμῷ ἀδιάφοροι ἀλλήλαις μόναι, καὶ οὕτως οὐθὲν ἐλάττω συμβαίνει τὰ δυσχερῆ.
For example, in the Ideal number 10 there are ten units, and 10 is composed both of these and of two 5’s. Now since the Ideal 10 is not a chance number, and is not composed of chance 5’s, any more than of chance units, the units in this number 10 must be different; for if they are not different, the 5’s of which the 10 is composed will not be different; but since these are different, the units must be different too. Now if the units are different, will there or will there not be other 5’s in this 10, and not only the two? If there are not, the thing is absurd; whereas if there are, what sort of 10 will be composed of them? for there is no other 10 in 10 besides the 10 itself: Again, it must also be true that 4 is not composed of chance 2’s. For according to them the indeterminate dyad, receiving the determinate dyad, made two dyads; for it was capable of duplicating that which it received. Again, how is it possible that 2 can be a definite entity existing besides the two units, and 3 besides the three units? Either by participation of the one in the other, as “white man” exists besides “white” and “man,” because it partakes of these concepts; or when the one is a differentia of the other, as “man” exists besides “animal” and “two-footed.” Again, some things are one by contact, others by mixture, and others by position; but none of these alternatives can possibly apply to the units of which 2 and 3 consist. Just as two men do not constitute any one thing distinct from both of them, so it must be with the units. The fact that the units are indivisible will make no difference; because points are indivisible also, but nevertheless a pair of points is not anything distinct from the two single points. Moreover we must not fail to realize this: that on this theory it follows that 2’s are prior and posterior, and the other numbers similarly. Let it be granted that the 2’s in 4 are contemporaneous; yet they are prior to those in 8, and just as the 〈determinate〉 2 produced the 2’s in 4, so they produced the 4’s in 8. Hence if the original 2 is an Idea, these 2’s will also be Ideas of a sort. And the same argument applies to the units, because the units in the original 2 produce the four units in 4; and so all the units become Ideas, and an Idea will be composed of Ideas. Hence clearly those things also of which these things are Ideas will be composite;
οἷον γὰρ ἐν τῇ δεκάδι αὐτῇ ἔνεισι δέκα μονάδες, σύγκειται δὲ καὶ ἐκ τούτων καὶ ἐκ δύο πεντάδων ἡ δεκάς. ἐπεὶ δʼ οὐχ ὁ τυχὼν ἀριθμὸς αὐτὴ ἡ δεκὰς οὐδὲ σύγκειται ἐκ τῶν τυχουσῶν πεντάδων, ὥσπερ οὐδὲ μονάδων, ἀνάγκη διαφέρειν τὰς μονάδας τὰς ἐν τῇ δεκάδι ταύτῃ. ἂν γὰρ μὴ διαφέρωσιν, οὐδʼ αἱ πεντάδες διοίσουσιν ἐξ ὧν ἐστὶν ἡ δεκάς· ἐπεὶ δὲ διαφέρουσι, καὶ αἱ μονάδες διοίσουσιν. εἰ δὲ διαφέρουσι, πότερον οὐκ ἐνέσονται πεντάδες ἄλλαι ἀλλὰ μόνον αὗται αἱ δύο, ἢ ἔσονται; εἴτε δὲ μὴ ἐνέσονται, ἄτοπον· εἴτʼ ἐνέσονται, ποία ἔσται δεκὰς ἐξ ἐκείνων; οὐ γὰρ ἔστιν ἑτέρα δεκὰς ἐν τῇ δεκάδι παρʼ αὐτήν. ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ ἀνάγκη γε μὴ ἐκ τῶν τυχουσῶν δυάδων τὴν τετράδα συγκεῖσθαι· ἡ γὰρ ἀόριστος δυάς, ὥς φασι, λαβοῦσα τὴν ὡρισμένην δυάδα δύο δυάδας ἐποίησεν· τοῦ γὰρ ληφθέντος ἦν δυοποιός.—ἔτι τὸ εἶναι παρὰ τὰς δύο μονάδας τὴν δυάδα φύσιν τινά, καὶ τὴν τριάδα παρὰ τὰς τρεῖς μονάδας, πῶς ἐνδέχεται; ἢ γὰρ μεθέξει θατέρου θατέρου, ὥσπερ λευκὸς ἄνθρωπος παρὰ λευκὸν καὶ ἄνθρωπον (μετέχει γὰρ τούτων), ἢ ὅταν ᾖ θατέρου θάτερον διαφορά τις, ὥσπερ ὁ ἄνθρωπος παρὰ ζῷον καὶ δίπουν. ἔτι τὰ μὲν ἁφῇ ἐστὶν ἓν τὰ δὲ μίξει τὰ δὲ θέσει· ὧν οὐδὲν ἐνδέχεται ὑπάρχειν ταῖς μονάσιν ἐξ ὧν ἡ δυὰς καὶ ἡ τριάς· ἀλλʼ ὥσπερ οἱ δύο ἄνθρωποι οὐχ ἕν τι παρʼ ἀμφοτέρους, οὕτως ἀνάγκη καὶ τὰς μονάδας. καὶ οὐχ ὅτι ἀδιαίρετοι, διοίσουσι διὰ τοῦτο· καὶ γὰρ αἱ στιγμαὶ ἀδιαίρετοι, ἀλλʼ ὅμως παρὰ τὰς δύο οὐθὲν ἕτερον ἡ δυὰς αὐτῶν.—ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδὲ τοῦτο δεῖ λανθάνειν, ὅτι συμβαίνει προτέρας καὶ ὑστέρας εἶναι δυάδας, ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους ἀριθμούς. αἱ μὲν γὰρ ἐν τῇ τετράδι δυάδες ἔστωσαν ἀλλήλαις ἅμα· ἀλλʼ αὗται τῶν ἐν τῇ ὀκτάδι πρότεραί εἰσι, καὶ ἐγέννησαν, ὥσπερ ἡ δυὰς ταύτας, αὗται τὰς τετράδας τὰς ἐν τῇ ὀκτάδι αὐτῇ, ὥστε εἰ καὶ ἡ πρώτη δυὰς ἰδέα, καὶ αὗται ἰδέαι τινὲς ἔσονται. ὁ δʼ αὐτὸς λόγος καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν μονάδων· αἱ γὰρ ἐν τῇ δυάδι τῇ πρώτῃ μονάδες γεννῶσι τὰς τέτταρας τὰς ἐν τῇ τετράδι, ὥστε πᾶσαι αἱ μονάδες ἰδέαι γίγνονται καὶ συγκείσεται ἰδέα ἐξ ἰδεῶν· ὥστε δῆλον ὅτι κἀκεῖνα ὧν ἰδέαι αὗται τυγχάνουσιν οὖσαι συγκείμενα ἔσται, οἷον εἰ τὰ ζῷα φαίη τις συγκεῖσθαι ἐκ ζῴων, εἰ τούτων ἰδέαι εἰσίν.
e.g., one might say that animals are composed of animals, if there are Ideas of animals. In general, to regard units as different in any way whatsoever is absurd and fictitious (by “fictitious” I mean “dragged in to support a hypothesis”). For we can see that one unit differs from another neither in quantity nor in quality; and a number must be either equal or unequal—this applies to all numbers, but especially to numbers consisting of abstract units. Thus if a number is neither more nor less, it is equal; and things which are equal and entirely without difference we assume, in the sphere of number, to be identical. Otherwise even the 2’s in the Ideal 10 will be different, although they are equal; for if anyone maintains that they are not different, what reason will he be able to allege? Again, if every unit plus another unit makes 2, a unit from the Ideal 2 plus one from the Ideal 3 will make 2—a 2 composed of different units; will this be prior or posterior to 3? It rather seems that it must be prior, because one of the units is contemporaneous with 3, and the other with 2. We assume that in general 1 and 1, whether the things are equal or unequal, make 2; e.g. good and bad, or man and horse; but the supporters of this theory say that not even two units make 2. If the number of the Ideal 3 is not greater than that of the Ideal 2, it is strange; and if it is greater, then clearly there is a number in it equal to the 2, so that this number is not different from the Ideal 2. But this is impossible, if there is a first and second number. Nor will the Ideas be numbers. For on this particular point they are right who claim that the units must be different if there are to be Ideas, as has been already stated. For the form is unique; but if the units are undifferentiated, the 2’s and 3’s will be undifferentiated. Hence they have to say that when we count like this, l, 2, we do not add to the already existing number; for if we do, (a) number will not be generated from the indeterminate dyad, and (b) a number cannot be an Idea; because one Idea will pre-exist in another, and all the Forms will be parts of one Form. Thus in relation to their hypothesis they are right, but absolutely they are wrong, for their view is very destructive, inasmuch as they will say that this point presents a difficulty: whether, when we count and say “1, 2, 3,” we count by addition or by enumerating distinct portions. But we do both; and therefore it is ridiculous to refer this point to so great a difference in essence.
—ὅλως δὲ τὸ ποιεῖν τὰς μονάδας διαφόρους ὁπωσοῦν ἄτοπον καὶ πλασματῶδες (λέγω δὲ πλασματῶδες τὸ πρὸς ὑπόθεσιν βεβιασμένον)· οὔτε γὰρ κατὰ τὸ ποσὸν οὔτε κατὰ τὸ ποιὸν ὁρῶμεν διαφέρουσαν μονάδα μονάδος, ἀνάγκη τε ἢ ἴσον ἢ ἄνισον εἶναι ἀριθμόν, πάντα μὲν ἀλλὰ μάλιστα τὸν μοναδικόν, ὥστʼ εἰ μήτε πλείων μήτʼ ἐλάττων, ἴσος· τὰ δὲ ἴσα καὶ ὅλως ἀδιάφορα ταὐτὰ ὑπολαμβάνομεν ἐν τοῖς ἀριθμοῖς. εἰ δὲ μή, οὐδʼ αἱ ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ δεκάδι δυάδες ἀδιάφοροι ἔσονται ἴσαι οὖσαι· τίνα γὰρ αἰτίαν ἕξει λέγειν ὁ φάσκων ἀδιαφόρους εἶναι; ἔτι εἰ ἅπασα μονὰς καὶ μονὰς ἄλλη δύο, ἡ ἐκ τῆς δυάδος αὐτῆς μονὰς καὶ ἡ ἐκ τῆς τριάδος αὐτῆς δυὰς ἔσται ἐκ διαφερουσῶν τε, καὶ πότερον προτέρα τῆς τριάδος ἢ ὑστέρα; μᾶλλον γὰρ ἔοικε προτέραν ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι· ἡ μὲν γὰρ ἅμα τῇ τριάδι ἡ δʼ ἅμα τῇ δυάδι τῶν μονάδων. καὶ ἡμεῖς μὲν ὑπολαμβάνομεν ὅλως ἓν καὶ ἕν, καὶ ἐὰν ᾖ ἴσα ἢ ἄνισα, δύο εἶναι, οἷον τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ τὸ κακόν, καὶ ἄνθρωπον καὶ ἵππον· οἱ δʼ οὕτως λέγοντες οὐδὲ τὰς μονάδας. εἴτε δὲ μὴ ἔστι πλείων ἀριθμὸς ὁ τῆς τριάδος αὐτῆς ἢ ὁ τῆς δυάδος, θαυμαστόν· εἴτε ἐστὶ πλείων, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ ἴσος ἔνεστι τῇ δυάδι, ὥστε οὗτος ἀδιάφορος αὐτῇ τῇ δυάδι. ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐνδέχεται, εἰ πρῶτός τις ἔστιν ἀριθμὸς καὶ δεύτερος. οὐδὲ ἔσονται αἱ ἰδέαι ἀριθμοί. τοῦτο μὲν γὰρ αὐτὸ ὀρθῶς λέγουσιν οἱ διαφόρους τὰς μονάδας ἀξιοῦντες εἶναι, εἴπερ ἰδέαι ἔσονται, ὥσπερ εἴρηται πρότερον· ἓν γὰρ τὸ εἶδος, αἱ δὲ μονάδες εἰ ἀδιάφοροι, καὶ αἱ δυάδες καὶ αἱ τριάδες ἔσονται ἀδιάφοροι. διὸ καὶ τὸ ἀριθμεῖσθαι οὕτως, ἓν δύο, μὴ προσλαμβανομένου πρὸς τῷ ὑπάρχοντι ἀναγκαῖον αὐτοῖς λέγειν (οὔτε γὰρ ἡ γένεσις ἔσται ἐκ τῆς ἀορίστου δυάδος, οὔτʼ ἰδέαν ἐνδέχεται εἶναι· ἐνυπάρξει γὰρ ἑτέρα ἰδέα ἐν ἑτέρᾳ, καὶ πάντα τὰ εἴδη ἑνὸς μέρη)· διὸ πρὸς μὲν τὴν ὑπόθεσιν ὀρθῶς λέγουσιν, ὅλως δʼ οὐκ ὀρθῶς· πολλὰ γὰρ ἀναιροῦσιν, ἐπεὶ τοῦτό γʼ αὐτὸ ἔχειν τινὰ φήσουσιν ἀπορίαν, πότερον, ὅταν ἀριθμῶμεν καὶ εἴπωμεν ἓν δύο τρία, προσλαμβάνοντες ἀριθμοῦμεν ἢ κατὰ μερίδας. ποιοῦμεν δὲ ἀμφοτέρως· διὸ γελοῖον ταύτην εἰς τηλικαύτην τῆς οὐσίας ἀνάγειν διαφοράν.
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