Socrates Socrates. The name ἵμερος (longing) was given to the stream (ῥοῦς) which most draws the soul; 420afor because it flows with a rush (ἱέμενος) and with a desire for things and thus draws the soul on through the impulse of its flowing, all this power gives it the name of ἵμερος. And the word πόθος (yearning) signifies that it pertains not to that which is present, but to that which is elsewhere (ἄλλοθί που) or absent, and therefore the same feeling which is called ἵμερος when its object is present, is called πόθος when it is absent. And ἔρως (love) is so called because it flows in (ἐσρεῖ) from without, and this flowing is not inherent in him who has it, 420bbut is introduced through the eyes; for this reason it was in ancient times called ἔσρος, from ἐσρεῖν—for we used to employ omicron instead of omega—but now it is called ἔρως through the change of omicron to omega. Well, what more is there that you want to examine?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. What is your view about δόξα (opinion) and the like?
Socrates Socrates. Δόξα is derived either from the pursuit (δίωξις) which the soul carries on as it pursues the knowledge of the nature of things, or from the shooting of the bow (τόξον); the latter is more likely; at any rate οἴησις (belief) supports this view, 420cfor it appears to mean the motion (οἶσις) of the soul towards the essential nature of every individual thing, just as βουλή (intention) denotes shooting (βολή) and βούλεσθαι (wish), as well as βουλεύεσθαι (plan), denotes aiming at something. All these words seem to follow δόξα and to express the idea of shooting, just as ἀβουλία (ill-advisedness), on the other hand, appears to be a failure to hit, as if a person did not shoot or hit that which he shot at or wished or planned or desired. 420d
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are hurrying things a bit, Socrates.
Socrates Socrates. Yes, for I am running the last lap now. But I think I must still explain ἀνάγκη (compulsion) and ἑκούσιον (voluntary) because they naturally come next. Now by the word ἑκούσιον is expressed the yielding (εἶκον) and not opposing, but, as I say, yielding to the motion which is in accordance with the will; but the compulsory (τὸ ἀναγκαῖον) and resistant, being contrary to the will, is associated with error and ignorance; so it is likened to walking through ravines (ἄγκη), 420ebecause they are hard to traverse, rough, and rugged, and retard motion; the word ἀναγκαῖον may, then, originate in a comparison with progress through a ravine. But let us not cease to use my strength, so long as it lasts and do not you cease from asking questions.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I ask, then, about the greatest and noblest words, 421atruth (ἀλήθεια), falsehood (ψεῦδος), being (τὸ ὄν), and why name, the subject of our whole discourse, has the name ὄνομα.
Socrates Socrates. Does the word μαίσθαι (search) mean anything to you?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, it means seek.
Socrates Socrates. The word ὄνομα seems to be a word composed from a sentence signifying “this is a being about which our search is.” You can recognize that more readily in the adjective ὀνομαστόν, for that says clearly that this is 421bὄν οὗ μάσμα ἐστίν (being of which the search is). And ἀλήθεια (truth) is like the others; for the divine motion of the universe is, I think, called by this name, ἀλήθεια, because it is a divine wandering θεία ἄλη. But ψεῦδος (falsehood) is the opposite of motion; for once more that which is held back and forced to be quiet is found fault with, and it is compared to slumberers (εὕουσι); but the addition of the psi conceals the meaning of the word. The words τὸ ὄν (being) and οὐσία (existence) agree with ἀληθής with the loss of iota, for they mean going (ἰόν). And οὐκ ὄν (not being) means οὐκ ἰόν (not going), 421cand indeed some people pronounce it so.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you have knocked these words to pieces manfully, Socrates; but if anyone should ask you what propriety or correctness there was in these words that you have employed—ἰόν and ρἕον and δοῦν—
Socrates Socrates. What answer should I make? Is that your meaning?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, exactly.
Socrates Socrates. We acquired just now one way of making an answer with a semblance of sense in it.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. What way was that?
Socrates Socrates. Saying, if there is a word we do not know about, that it is of foreign origin. 421dNow this may be true of some of them, and also on account of the lapse of time it may be impossible to find out about the earliest words; for since words get twisted in all sorts of ways, it would not be in the least wonderful if the ancient Greek word should be identical with the modern foreign one.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. That is not unlikely.
Socrates Socrates. It is indeed quite probable. However, we must play the game1 and investigate these questions vigorously. But let us bear in mind that if a person asks 421eabout the words by means of which names are formed, and again about those by means of which those words were formed, and keeps on doing this indefinitely, he who answers his questions will at last give up; will he not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, I think so.
Socrates Socrates. Now at what point will he be right in giving up and stopping? Will it not be when he reaches the names which are the elements of the other names and words? For these, if they are the elements, can no longer rightly appear to be composed of other names. For instance, we said just now that ἀγαθόν was composed of ἀγαστόν and θοόν; and perhaps we might say that θοόν was composed of other words, and those of still others; 422bbut if we ever get hold of a word which is no longer composed of other words, we should be right ill saying that we had at last reached an element, and that we must no longer refer to other words for its derivation.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are right.
Socrates Socrates. Are, then, these words about which you are now asking elements, and must we henceforth investigate their correctness by some other method?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Probably.
Socrates Socrates. Yes, probably, Hermogenes; at any rate, all the previous words were traced back to these. 422cBut if this be true, as I think it is, come to my aid again and help me in the investigation, that I may not say anything foolish in declaring what principle must underlie the correctness of the earliest names.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Go on, and I will help you to the best of my ability.
Socrates Socrates. I think you agree with me that there is but one principle of correctness in all names, the earliest as well as the latest, and that none of them is any more a name than the rest.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly. 422d
Socrates Socrates. Now the correctness of all the names we have discussed was based upon the intention of showing the nature of the things named.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, of course.
Socrates Socrates. And this principle of correctness must be present in all names, the earliest as well as the later ones, if they are really to be names.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly.
Socrates Socrates. But the later ones, apparently, were able to accomplish this by means of the earlier ones.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Evidently.
Socrates Socrates. Well, then, how can the earliest names, which are not as yet based upon any others, make clear to us the nature of things, so far as that is possible, 422ewhich they must do if they are to be names at all? Answer me this question: If we had no voice or tongue, and wished to make things clear to one another, should we not try, as dumb people actually do, to make signs with our hands and head and person generally?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes. What other method is there, Socrates?
Socrates Socrates. If we wished to designate that which is above and is light, we should, I fancy, raise our hand towards heaven in imitation of the nature of the thing in question; but if the things to be designated were below or heavy, we should extend our hands towards the ground; and if we wished to mention a galloping horse or any other animal, we should, of course, make our bodily attitudes as much like theirs as possible.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are quite right; there is no other way.
Socrates Socrates. For the expression of anything, I fancy, 423bwould be accomplished by bodily imitation of that which was to be expressed.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes.
Socrates Socrates. And when we wish to express anything by voice or tongue or mouth, will not our expression by these means be accomplished in any given instance when an imitation of something is accomplished by them?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think that is inevitable.
Socrates Socrates. A name, then, it appears, is a vocal imitation of that which is imitated, and he who imitates with his voice names that which he imitates.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think that is correct. 423c
Socrates Socrates. By Zeus, I do not think it is quite correct, yet, my friend.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Why not?
Socrates Socrates. We should be obliged to agree that people who imitate sheep and cocks and other animals were naming those which they imitate.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, so we should.
Socrates Socrates. And do you think that is correct?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. No, I do not; but, Socrates, what sort of an imitation is a name?
Socrates Socrates. In the first place we shall not, in my opinion, be making names, if we imitate things as we do in music, 423dalthough musical imitation also is vocal; and secondly we shall make no names by imitating that which music imitates. What I mean is this: all objects have sound and shape, and many have color, have they not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly.
Socrates Socrates. Well then, the art of naming is not employed in the imitation of those qualities, and has nothing to do with them. The arts which are concerned with them are music and design, are they not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes. 423e
Socrates Socrates. Here is another point. Has not each thing an essential nature, just as it has a color and the other qualities we just mentioned? Indeed, in the first place, have not color and sound and all other things which may properly be said to exist, each and all an essential nature?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think so.
Socrates Socrates. Well, then, if anyone could imitate this essential nature of each thing by means of letters and syllables, he would show what each thing really is, would he not?
Socrates for because it flows with a rush (ἱέμενος) and with a desire for things and thus draws the soul on through the impulse of its flowing, all this power gives it the name of ἵμερος. And the word πόθος (yearning) signifies that it pertains not to that which is present, but to that which is elsewhere (ἄλλοθί που) or absent, and therefore the same feeling which is called ἵμερος when its object is present, is called πόθος when it is absent. And ἔρως (love) is so called because it flows in (ἐσρεῖ) from without, and this flowing is not inherent in him who has it,
Σωκράτης ἐπωνομάσθη· ὅτι γὰρ ἱέμενος ῥεῖ καὶ ἐφιέμενος τῶν πραγμάτων, καὶ οὕτω δὴ ἐπισπᾷ σφόδρα τὴν ψυχὴν διὰ τὴν ἕσιν τῆς ῥοῆς, ἀπὸ ταύτης οὖν πάσης τῆς δυνάμεως “ἵμερος” ἐκλήθη. καὶ μὴν “πόθος” αὖ καλεῖται σημαίνων οὐ τοῦ παρόντος εἶναι ἀλλὰ τοῦ ἄλλοθί που ὄντος καὶ ἀπόντος, ὅθεν “πόθος” ἐπωνόμασται ὃς τότε, ὅταν παρῇ οὗ τις ἐφίετο, “ἵμερος” ἐκαλεῖτο· ἀπογενομένου δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς οὗτος “πόθος” ἐκλήθη. “ἔρως” δέ, ὅτι εἰσρεῖ ἔξωθεν καὶ οὐκ οἰκεία ἐστὶν ἡ ῥοὴ
Socrates but is introduced through the eyes; for this reason it was in ancient times called ἔσρος, from ἐσρεῖν—for we used to employ omicron instead of omega—but now it is called ἔρως through the change of omicron to omega. Well, what more is there that you want to examine?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. What is your view about δόξα (opinion) and the like?
Socrates Socrates. Δόξα is derived either from the pursuit (δίωξις) which the soul carries on as it pursues the knowledge of the nature of things, or from the shooting of the bow (τόξον); the latter is more likely; at any rate οἴησις (belief) supports this view,
Σωκράτης αὕτη τῷ ἔχοντι ἀλλʼ ἐπείσακτος διὰ τῶν ὀμμάτων, διὰ ταῦτα ἀπὸ τοῦ ἐσρεῖν “ἔσρος” τό γε παλαιὸν ἐκαλεῖτο— τῷ γὰρ οὖ ἀντὶ τοῦ ὦ ἐχρώμεθα—νῦν δʼ “ἔρως” κέκληται διὰ τὴν τοῦ ὦ ἀντὶ τοῦ οὖ μεταλλαγήν. ἀλλὰ τί ἔτι σὺ λέγεις ὅτι σκοπῶμεν;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. “δόξα” καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πῇ σοι φαίνεται;
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. “δόξα” δὴ ἤτοι τῇ διώξει ἐπωνόμασται, ἣν ἡ ψυχὴ διώκουσα τὸ εἰδέναι ὅπῃ ἔχει τὰ πράγματα πορεύεται, ἢ τῇ ἀπὸ τοῦ τόξου βολῇ. ἔοικε δὲ τούτῳ μᾶλλον. ἡ
Socrates for it appears to mean the motion (οἶσις) of the soul towards the essential nature of every individual thing, just as βουλή (intention) denotes shooting (βολή) and βούλεσθαι (wish), as well as βουλεύεσθαι (plan), denotes aiming at something. All these words seem to follow δόξα and to express the idea of shooting, just as ἀβουλία (ill-advisedness), on the other hand, appears to be a failure to hit, as if a person did not shoot or hit that which he shot at or wished or planned or desired.
Σωκράτης γοῦν “οἴησις” τούτῳ συμφωνεῖ. “οἶσιν” γὰρ τῆς ψυχῆς ἐπὶ πᾶν πρᾶγμα, οἷόν ἐστιν ἕκαστον τῶν ὄντων, δηλούσῃ προσέοικεν, ὥσπερ γε καὶ ἡ “βουλή” πως τὴν βολήν, καὶ τὸ “βούλεσθαι” τὸ ἐφίεσθαι σημαίνει καὶ τὸ “βουλεύεσθαι”· πάντα ταῦτα δόξῃ ἑπόμενʼ ἄττα φαίνεται τῆς βολῆς ἀπεικάσματα, ὥσπερ αὖ καὶ τοὐναντίον ἡ “ἀβουλία” ἀτυχία δοκεῖ εἶναι, ὡς οὐ βαλόντος οὐδὲ τυχόντος οὗ τʼ ἔβαλλε καὶ ὃ ἐβούλετο καὶ περὶ οὗ ἐβουλεύετο καὶ οὗ ἐφίετο.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are hurrying things a bit, Socrates.
Socrates Socrates. Yes, for I am running the last lap now. But I think I must still explain ἀνάγκη (compulsion) and ἑκούσιον (voluntary) because they naturally come next. Now by the word ἑκούσιον is expressed the yielding (εἶκον) and not opposing, but, as I say, yielding to the motion which is in accordance with the will; but the compulsory (τὸ ἀναγκαῖον) and resistant, being contrary to the will, is associated with error and ignorance; so it is likened to walking through ravines (ἄγκη),
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ταῦτα ἤδη μοι δοκεῖς, ὦ Σώκρατες, πυκνότερα ἐπάγειν.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. τέλος γὰρ ἤδη θέω. “ἀνάγκην” δʼ οὖν ἔτι βούλομαι διαπερᾶναι, ὅτι τούτοις ἑξῆς ἐστι, καὶ τὸ “ἑκούσιον.” τὸ μὲν οὖν “ἑκούσιον,” τὸ εἶκον καὶ μὴ ἀντιτυποῦν ἀλλʼ, ὥσπερ λέγω, εἶκον τῷ ἰόντι δεδηλωμένον ἂν εἴη τούτῳ τῷ ὀνόματι, τῷ κατὰ τὴν βούλησιν γιγνομένῳ· τὸ δὲ “ἀναγκαῖον” καὶ ἀντίτυπον, παρὰ τὴν βούλησιν ὄν, τὸ περὶ τὴν ἁμαρτίαν ἂν εἴη καὶ ἀμαθίαν, ἀπείκασται δὲ τῇ κατὰ τὰ
Socrates because they are hard to traverse, rough, and rugged, and retard motion; the word ἀναγκαῖον may, then, originate in a comparison with progress through a ravine. But let us not cease to use my strength, so long as it lasts and do not you cease from asking questions.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I ask, then, about the greatest and noblest words,
Σωκράτης ἄγκη πορείᾳ, ὅτι δύσπορα καὶ τραχέα καὶ λάσια ὄντα ἴσχει τοῦ ἰέναι. ἐντεῦθεν οὖν ἴσως ἐκλήθη “ἀναγκαῖον,” τῇ διὰ τοῦ ἄγκους ἀπεικασθὲν πορείᾳ. ἕως δὲ πάρεστιν ἡ ῥώμη, μὴ ἀνιῶμεν αὐτήν· ἀλλὰ καὶ σὺ μὴ ἀνίει, ἀλλὰ ἐρώτα.
Hermogenes truth (ἀλήθεια), falsehood (ψεῦδος), being (τὸ ὄν), and why name, the subject of our whole discourse, has the name ὄνομα.
Socrates Socrates. Does the word μαίσθαι (search) mean anything to you?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, it means seek.
Socrates Socrates. The word ὄνομα seems to be a word composed from a sentence signifying “this is a being about which our search is.” You can recognize that more readily in the adjective ὀνομαστόν, for that says clearly that this is
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἐρωτῶ δὴ τὰ μέγιστα καὶ τὰ κάλλιστα, τήν τε “ἀλήθειαν” καὶ τὸ “ψεῦδος” καὶ τὸ “ὂν” καὶ αὐτὸ τοῦτο περὶ ὧν νῦν ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν ἐστιν, “ὄνομα,” διʼ ὅτι τὸ ὄνομα ἔχει.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. μαίεσθαι οὖν καλεῖς τι;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἔγωγε, τό γε ζητεῖν.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἔοικε τοίνυν ἐκ λόγου ὀνόματι συγκεκροτημένῳ, λέγοντος ὅτι τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ὄν, οὗ τυγχάνει ζήτημα ὄν, “ὄνομα.” μᾶλλον δὲ ἂν αὐτὸ γνοίης ἐν ᾧ λέγομεν τὸ “ὀνομαστόν”· ἐνταῦθα γὰρ σαφῶς λέγει τοῦτο εἶναι ὂν οὗ μάσμα ἐστίν.
Socrates ὄν οὗ μάσμα ἐστίν (being of which the search is). And ἀλήθεια (truth) is like the others; for the divine motion of the universe is, I think, called by this name, ἀλήθεια, because it is a divine wandering θεία ἄλη. But ψεῦδος (falsehood) is the opposite of motion; for once more that which is held back and forced to be quiet is found fault with, and it is compared to slumberers (εὕουσι); but the addition of the psi conceals the meaning of the word. The words τὸ ὄν (being) and οὐσία (existence) agree with ἀληθής with the loss of iota, for they mean going (ἰόν). And οὐκ ὄν (not being) means οὐκ ἰόν (not going),
Σωκράτης ἡ δʼ “ἀλήθεια,” καὶ τοῦτο τοῖς ἄλλοις ἔοικε · ἡ γὰρ θεία τοῦ ὄντος φορὰ ἔοικε προσειρῆσθαι τούτῳ τῷ ῥήματι, τῇ “ἀληθείᾳ,” ὡς θεία οὖσα ἄλη. τὸ δὲ “ψεῦδος” τοὐναντίον τῇ φορᾷ· πάλιν γὰρ αὖ λοιδορούμενον ἥκει τὸ ἰσχόμενον καὶ τὸ ἀναγκαζόμενον ἡσυχάζειν, ἀπείκασται δὲ τοῖς καθεύδουσι· τὸ ψεῖ δὲ προσγενόμενον ἐπικρύπτει τὴν βούλησιν τοῦ ὀνόματος. τὸ δὲ “ὂν” καὶ ἡ “οὐσία” ὁμολογεῖ τῷ ἀληθεῖ, τὸ ἰῶτα ἀπολαβόν· ἰὸν γὰρ
Socrates and indeed some people pronounce it so.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you have knocked these words to pieces manfully, Socrates; but if anyone should ask you what propriety or correctness there was in these words that you have employed—ἰόν and ρἕον and δοῦν—
Socrates Socrates. What answer should I make? Is that your meaning?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, exactly.
Socrates Socrates. We acquired just now one way of making an answer with a semblance of sense in it.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. What way was that?
Socrates Socrates. Saying, if there is a word we do not know about, that it is of foreign origin.
Σωκράτης σημαίνει, καὶ τὸ “οὐκ ὂν” αὖ, ὥς τινες καὶ ὀνομάζουσιν αὐτό, “οὐκ ἰόν.”
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ταῦτα μέν μοι δοκεῖς, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀνδρείως πάνυ διακεκροτηκέναι· εἰ δέ τίς σε ἔροιτο τοῦτο τὸ “ἰὸν” καὶ τὸ “ῥέον” καὶ τὸ “δοῦν,” τίνα ἔχει ὀρθότητα ταῦτα τὰ ὀνόματα—
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. “τί ἂν αὐτῷ ἀποκριναίμεθα;” λέγεις; ἦ γάρ;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἓν μὲν τοίνυν ἄρτι που ἐπορισάμεθα ὥστε δοκεῖν τὶ λέγειν ἀποκρινόμενοι.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. τὸ ποῖον τοῦτο;
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. φάναι, ὃ ἂν μὴ γιγνώσκωμεν, βαρβαρικόν τι τοῦτʼ
Socrates Now this may be true of some of them, and also on account of the lapse of time it may be impossible to find out about the earliest words; for since words get twisted in all sorts of ways, it would not be in the least wonderful if the ancient Greek word should be identical with the modern foreign one.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. That is not unlikely.
Socrates Socrates. It is indeed quite probable. However, we must play the game and investigate these questions vigorously. But let us bear in mind that if a person asks
Σωκράτης εἶναι. εἴη μὲν οὖν ἴσως ἄν τι τῇ ἀληθείᾳ καὶ τοιοῦτον αὐτῶν, εἴη δὲ κἂν ὑπὸ παλαιότητος τὰ πρῶτα τῶν ὀνομάτων ἀνεύρετα εἶναι· διὰ γὰρ τὸ πανταχῇ στρέφεσθαι τὰ ὀνόματα, οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν εἰ ἡ παλαιὰ φωνὴ πρὸς τὴν νυνὶ βαρβαρικῆς μηδὲν διαφέρει.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. καὶ οὐδέν γε ἀπὸ τρόπου λέγεις.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. λέγω γὰρ οὖν εἰκότα. οὐ μέντοι μοι δοκεῖ προφάσεις ἀγὼν δέχεσθαι, ἀλλὰ προθυμητέον ταῦτα διασκέψασθαι. ἐνθυμηθῶμεν δέ, εἴ τις ἀεί, διʼ ὧν ἂν λέγηται τὸ
Socrates about the words by means of which names are formed, and again about those by means of which those words were formed, and keeps on doing this indefinitely, he who answers his questions will at last give up; will he not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, I think so.
Socrates Socrates. Now at what point will he be right in giving up and stopping? Will it not be when he reaches the names which are the elements of the other names and words? For these, if they are the elements, can no longer rightly appear to be composed of other names. For instance, we said just now that ἀγαθόν was composed of ἀγαστόν and θοόν; and perhaps we might say that θοόν was composed of other words, and those of still others;
Σωκράτης ὄνομα, ἐκεῖνα ἀνερήσεται τὰ ῥήματα, καὶ αὖθις αὖ διʼ ὧν ἂν τὰ ῥήματα λεχθῇ, ἐκεῖνα πεύσεται, καὶ τοῦτο μὴ παύσεται ποιῶν, ἆρʼ οὐκ ἀνάγκη τελευτῶντα ἀπειπεῖν τὸν ἀποκρινόμενον;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
Socrates but if we ever get hold of a word which is no longer composed of other words, we should be right ill saying that we had at last reached an element, and that we must no longer refer to other words for its derivation.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are right.
Socrates Socrates. Are, then, these words about which you are now asking elements, and must we henceforth investigate their correctness by some other method?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Probably.
Socrates Socrates. Yes, probably, Hermogenes; at any rate, all the previous words were traced back to these.
Σωκράτης ἀλλʼ ἐάν ποτέ γε λάβωμεν ὃ οὐκέτι ἔκ τινων ἑτέρων σύγκειται ὀνομάτων, δικαίως ἂν φαῖμεν ἐπὶ στοιχείῳ τε ἤδη εἶναι καὶ οὐκέτι τοῦτο ἡμᾶς δεῖν εἰς ἄλλα ὀνόματα ἀναφέρειν.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖς ὀρθῶς λέγειν.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν καὶ νῦν ἅ γʼ ἐρωτᾷς τὰ ὀνόματα στοιχεῖα ὄντα τυγχάνει, καὶ δεῖ αὐτῶν ἄλλῳ τινὶ τρόπῳ ἤδη τὴν ὀρθότητα ἐπισκέψασθαι ἥτις ἐστίν;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. εἰκός γε.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. εἰκὸς δῆτα, ὦ Ἑρμόγενες· πάντα γοῦν φαίνεται τὰ
Socrates But if this be true, as I think it is, come to my aid again and help me in the investigation, that I may not say anything foolish in declaring what principle must underlie the correctness of the earliest names.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Go on, and I will help you to the best of my ability.
Socrates Socrates. I think you agree with me that there is but one principle of correctness in all names, the earliest as well as the latest, and that none of them is any more a name than the rest.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly.
Σωκράτης ἔμπροσθεν εἰς ταῦτα ἀνεληλυθέναι. εἰ δὲ τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχει, ὥς μοι δοκεῖ ἔχειν, δεῦρο αὖ συνεπίσκεψαι μετʼ ἐμοῦ μή τι παραληρήσω λέγων οἵαν δεῖ τὴν τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων ὀρθότητα εἶναι.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. λέγε μόνον, ὡς ὅσον γε δυνάμεως παρʼ ἐμοί ἐστιν συνεπισκέψομαι.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ὅτι μὲν τοίνυν μία γέ τις ἡ ὀρθότης παντὸς ὀνόματος καὶ πρώτου καὶ ὑστάτου, καὶ οὐδὲν διαφέρει τῷ ὄνομα εἶναι οὐδὲν αὐτῶν, οἶμαι καὶ σοὶ συνδοκεῖ.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πάνυ γε.
Socrates Socrates. Now the correctness of all the names we have discussed was based upon the intention of showing the nature of the things named.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, of course.
Socrates Socrates. And this principle of correctness must be present in all names, the earliest as well as the later ones, if they are really to be names.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly.
Socrates Socrates. But the later ones, apparently, were able to accomplish this by means of the earlier ones.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Evidently.
Socrates Socrates. Well, then, how can the earliest names, which are not as yet based upon any others, make clear to us the nature of things, so far as that is possible,
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν ὧν γε νυνδὴ διεληλύθαμεν τῶν ὀνομάτων ἡ ὀρθότης τοιαύτη τις ἐβούλετο εἶναι, οἵα δηλοῦν οἷον ἕκαστόν ἐστι τῶν ὄντων.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. τοῦτο μὲν ἄρα οὐδὲν ἧττον καὶ τὰ πρῶτα δεῖ ἔχειν καὶ τὰ ὕστερα, εἴπερ ὀνόματα ἔσται.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πάνυ γε.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν ὕστερα, ὡς ἔοικε, διὰ τῶν προτέρων οἷά τε ἦν τοῦτο ἀπεργάζεσθαι.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. φαίνεται.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. εἶεν· τὰ δὲ δὴ πρῶτα, οἷς οὔπω ἕτερα ὑπόκειται, τίνι τρόπῳ κατὰ τὸ δυνατὸν ὅτι μάλιστα φανερὰ ἡμῖν
Socrates which they must do if they are to be names at all? Answer me this question: If we had no voice or tongue, and wished to make things clear to one another, should we not try, as dumb people actually do, to make signs with our hands and head and person generally?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes. What other method is there, Socrates?
Socrates Socrates. If we wished to designate that which is above and is light, we should, I fancy, raise our hand towards heaven in imitation of the nature of the thing in question; but if the things to be designated were below or heavy, we should extend our hands towards the ground; and if we wished to mention a galloping horse or any other animal, we should, of course, make our bodily attitudes as much like theirs as possible.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think you are quite right; there is no other way.
Socrates Socrates. For the expression of anything, I fancy,
Σωκράτης ποιήσει τὰ ὄντα, εἴπερ μέλλει ὀνόματα εἶναι; ἀπόκριναι δέ μοι τόδε· εἰ φωνὴν μὴ εἴχομεν μηδὲ γλῶτταν, ἐβουλόμεθα δὲ δηλοῦν ἀλλήλοις τὰ πράγματα, ἆρʼ οὐκ ἄν, ὥσπερ νῦν οἱ ἐνεοί, ἐπεχειροῦμεν ἂν σημαίνειν ταῖς χερσὶ καὶ κεφαλῇ καὶ τῷ ἄλλῳ σώματι;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πῶς γὰρ ἂν ἄλλως, ὦ Σώκρατες;
Socrates would be accomplished by bodily imitation of that which was to be expressed.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes.
Socrates Socrates. And when we wish to express anything by voice or tongue or mouth, will not our expression by these means be accomplished in any given instance when an imitation of something is accomplished by them?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think that is inevitable.
Socrates Socrates. A name, then, it appears, is a vocal imitation of that which is imitated, and he who imitates with his voice names that which he imitates.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think that is correct.
Σωκράτης μιμησαμένου, ὡς ἔοικε, τοῦ σώματος ἐκεῖνο ὃ ἐβούλετο δηλῶσαι.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ναί.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἐπειδὴ δὲ φωνῇ τε καὶ γλώττῃ καὶ στόματι βουλόμεθα δηλοῦν, ἆρʼ οὐ τότε ἑκάστου δήλωμα ἡμῖν ἔσται τὸ ἀπὸ τούτων γιγνόμενον, ὅταν μίμημα γένηται διὰ τούτων περὶ ὁτιοῦν;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἀνάγκη μοι δοκεῖ.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ὄνομʼ ἄρʼ ἐστίν, ὡς ἔοικε, μίμημα φωνῇ ἐκείνου ὃ μιμεῖται, καὶ ὀνομάζει ὁ μιμούμενος τῇ φωνῇ ὃ ἂν μιμῆται
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. δοκεῖ μοι.
Socrates Socrates. By Zeus, I do not think it is quite correct, yet, my friend.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Why not?
Socrates Socrates. We should be obliged to agree that people who imitate sheep and cocks and other animals were naming those which they imitate.
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes, so we should.
Socrates Socrates. And do you think that is correct?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. No, I do not; but, Socrates, what sort of an imitation is a name?
Socrates Socrates. In the first place we shall not, in my opinion, be making names, if we imitate things as we do in music,
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. μὰ Δίʼ ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐμοί πω δοκεῖ καλῶς λέγεσθαι, ὦ ἑταῖρε.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. τί δή;
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. τοὺς τὰ πρόβατα μιμουμένους τούτους καὶ τοὺς ἀλεκτρυόνας καὶ τὰ ἄλλα ζῷα ἀναγκαζοίμεθʼ ἂν ὁμολογεῖν ὀνομάζειν ταῦτα ἅπερ μιμοῦνται.
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. καλῶς οὖν ἔχειν δοκεῖ σοι;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. οὐκ ἔμοιγε. ἀλλὰ τίς ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, μίμησις εἴη τὸ ὄνομα;
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. πρῶτον μέν, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, οὐκ ἐὰν καθάπερ τῇ
Socrates although musical imitation also is vocal; and secondly we shall make no names by imitating that which music imitates. What I mean is this: all objects have sound and shape, and many have color, have they not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Certainly.
Socrates Socrates. Well then, the art of naming is not employed in the imitation of those qualities, and has nothing to do with them. The arts which are concerned with them are music and design, are they not?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. Yes.
Σωκράτης μουσικῇ μιμούμεθα τὰ πράγματα οὕτω μιμώμεθα, καίτοι φωνῇ γε καὶ τότε μιμούμεθα· ἔπειτα οὐκ ἐὰν ἅπερ ἡ μουσικὴ μιμεῖται καὶ ἡμεῖς μιμώμεθα, οὔ μοι δοκοῦμεν ὀνομάσειν. λέγω δέ τοι τοῦτο· ἔστι τοῖς πράγμασι φωνὴ καὶ σχῆμα ἑκάστῳ, καὶ χρῶμά γε πολλοῖς;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. πάνυ γε.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. ἔοικε τοίνυν οὐκ ἐάν τις ταῦτα μιμῆται, οὐδὲ περὶ ταύτας τὰς μιμήσεις ἡ τέχνη ἡ ὀνομαστικὴ εἶναι. αὗται μὲν γάρ εἰσιν ἡ μὲν μουσική, ἡ δὲ γραφική· ἦ γάρ;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ναί.
Socrates Socrates. Here is another point. Has not each thing an essential nature, just as it has a color and the other qualities we just mentioned? Indeed, in the first place, have not color and sound and all other things which may properly be said to exist, each and all an essential nature?
Hermogenes Hermogenes. I think so.
Socrates Socrates. Well, then, if anyone could imitate this essential nature of each thing by means of letters and syllables, he would show what each thing really is, would he not?
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. τί δὲ δὴ τόδε; οὐ καὶ οὐσία δοκεῖ σοι εἶναι ἑκάστῳ, ὥσπερ καὶ χρῶμα καὶ ἃ νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν; πρῶτον αὐτῷ τῷ χρώματι καὶ τῇ φωνῇ οὐκ ἔστιν οὐσία τις ἑκατέρῳ αὐτῶν καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις πᾶσιν ὅσα ἠξίωται ταύτης τῆς προσρήσεως, τοῦ εἶναι;
Ἑρμογένης ΕΡΜ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
Σωκράτης ΣΩ. τί οὖν; εἴ τις αὐτὸ τοῦτο μιμεῖσθαι δύναιτο ἑκάστου, τὴν οὐσίαν, γράμμασί τε καὶ συλλαβαῖς, ἆρʼ οὐκ ἂν δηλοῖ ἕκαστον ὃ ἔστιν; ἢ οὔ;
Page 10 of 15 · Cratylus, Plato , tr. Harold North Fowler · Perseus Digital Library